[robocup-small] the rule of "Two defender in defence area"

Fri Nov 23 09:38:24 EST 2012

How referee determine that which robot is Goal Keeper??

> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 20:25:32 +0800
> Subject: Re: [robocup-small] the rule of "Two defender in defence area"
> From: liunian at zju.edu.cn
> To: stylus_l at hotmail.com
> CC: saith_rodriguez at hotmail.com; robocup-small at cc.gatech.edu
> 
> 2012/11/23, Thanakorn Panyapiang <stylus_l at hotmail.com>:
> > It's clearly that this rule is necessary to our league because It's prevent
> > the negative game play, For example, put all robotin front of the goal.
> >
> My suggestions can prevent this from happening. If one team put all
> robots in front of the
> goal, the opponent has very large probability to shoot on the robot in
> defence area. It will be a read card and a penalty.
> 
> > In my opinion the problems of this rule is cause by There is no standard for
> > the referee decision.
> > If we add the image visualization for some situation that difficult for
> > referee into the rule bookor make the video guideline  and distribute to
> > teams,It should be reduce conflict in the real match.
> > Regards,O, Skuba
> > From: saith_rodriguez at hotmail.com
> > To: robocup-small at cc.gatech.edu
> > Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:34:47 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [robocup-small] the rule of "Two defender in defence area"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > It is clear that the rule should not be removed, one of the problems that
> > our team had in 2011 and 2012 is related to some referees that have
> > different interpretations about rules or they just ignore them and we do not
> > blame them, we know it's very hard  to know all rules and there are some
> > rules that can have multiple interpretations.
> >
> > Nevertheless,  I do not think you can compare a FIFA referee with one of our
> > league, because they do this every day, are very experienced.
> >
> > Our concern is that as all teams have worked hard to get economic resources
> > and is very frustrating that everything can be truncated by poor refereeing
> > decisions. We realize that there will always be but not as frecuently.
> >
> > It would be great create a guide that should be released months before the
> > competitions.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Saith Rodriguez
> > STOx's Team Leader
> >
> > From: jgurzoni at yahoo.com.br
> > To: robocup-small at cc.gatech.edu
> > Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:33:48 -0200
> > Subject: Re: [robocup-small] the rule of "Two defender in defence area"
> >
> > Hello everybodyI see the point that this rule alone is a source of disputes
> > and a ‘fix’ should be shought, however, I have similar concerns to those
> > expressed by Andrea, particularly the difficulties for referees to see the
> > event in a split second. Let’s remind also that this rule was created to
> > avoid teams simply putting 3 robots in front of the goal, a similar reason
> > why the defense area was increased. If we remove it, simply, we may have the
> > problem it is currently preventing. I also think that we need to be aware
> > that adding ‘precision’ to the rules, like defining a specific percentage of
> > the robot in the area, tend not to work because humans can’t detect that
> > with naked eye, neither is simple to create measurement systems to this end.
> > Teams and referees should focus on the spirit of the rules, not on their
> > millimeter precision. The referee’s power to judge an event is important and
> > necessary, so what we could do (regardless if this rule actually gets
> > modified) is to do what real soccer and virtually every sport does for
> > referees: The organizing bodies create guidelines and recommendation to help
> > referees to interpret the situations. For example, Fifa issues refereeing
> > guidelines giving examples and suggestions about what level of body contact
> > is to be allowed, to what level player complaints must be accepted before a
> > yellow card, unsporting behavior, and so on. Amanda, Bahador and Chris
> > started a guide like that, if I recall correctly.    CheersAngelo  From:
> > robocup-small-bounces at cc.gatech.edu
> > [mailto:robocup-small-bounces at cc.gatech.edu] On Behalf Of Andrea Palmer
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 5:09 PM
> > To: robocup-small at cc.gatech.edu
> > Subject: Re: [robocup-small] the rule of "Two defender in defence area" Hi
> > all, I agree with Yonghai's statement that this rule caused difficultly in
> > Mexico. However, I think so far the suggestions might make it more difficult
> > for the referee to monitor.  If a second defender would be allowed in the
> > area and if it would only be penalized if touched by the ball, then the
> > referee must watch both the ball (moving at 8 m/s) and the defending robot's
> > proximity to the defense area, as well as everything else he or she must be
> > watching on the field.  Although reducing referee subjectivity will help
> > with more concrete rules of the game and procedures over disputes, making
> > the rules too specific by adding the percentage of the robot that is allowed
> > in the box adds more complications during the game. How easy will it be for
> > a referee tell the difference between 50% and 30% of the robot over the
> > line?  I think the referees need a better explanation of this rule and when
> > to enforce it. Does it count if an attacking robot pushes the defending
> > robot in the area? Does it count if the robot is passing through the box,
> > but is not staying in the box (yes, if the ball touches that robot)?  I can
> > anticipate more arguments during competition around this issue if, for
> > example, the second defender and the goalie are close to each other, inside
> > the defense area, and the ball touches one of them. How is a referee
> > supposed to tell which robot the ball touches?  Finally, if a second
> > defender would be allowed in the area, what would happen if a third crossed
> > the defense line too? Then, not only would the referee have to closely watch
> > the third robot to see if it is, in fact, in the defense area, but also it
> > might require the initial rule that caused this discussion in the first
> > place.  Please also keep in mind that there are currently only two referees
> > per game that walk along the sides of the field. During a game, there are
> > usually many team members with many sets of eyes along the ends of the field
> > who might have a better view of the defense area, and it is easier for them
> > to catch what the referees missed. Thanks, Andrea PalmerUBC Thunderbots On
> > Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Carlos Saith Rodriguez
> > <saith_rodriguez at hotmail.com> wrote:Hello friends
> >
> > I agree with Yonghai, this rule has created many inconveniences and clashes
> > between the teams and that's not good for our community.
> >
> > The proposal is good, but it needs to be very specific. for example, in any
> > situation in which the defender touches the ball inside the defense area was
> > penalized.
> >
> > More over it is necessary to define exactly when a robot is in the defense
> > area: when the robot touches the line delimiting the area or when 50% of the
> > robot is inside the area.
> >
> > We must find a solution to decrease the subjective interpretation of the
> > referee.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Saith Rodriguez
> > STOx's Team Leader
> >
> >
> >> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 22:44:15 +0800
> >> From: liunian at zju.edu.cn
> >> To: robocup-small at cc.gatech.edu
> >> Subject: [robocup-small] the rule of "Two defender in defence area"
> >>
> >> Hi everybody,
> >>
> >> Maybe everybody in Mexico has a very deep impression on the law
> >> of "Two defender in defence area". There were 3 penalties in the
> >> Quarterfinals Skuba vs Immortals due to this law.
> >> Law 12 of rule 2012 give the detial definition: is the second
> >> defending robot to simultaneously occupy the team's defence area in
> >> such a way tosubstantially affect game play. But the rule did not
> >> give a clear definition of "substantially affect game play", is all up
> >> to the referee. So the problem is comming, i remembered that maybe
> >> more than 50% argument during the game are related to this law.
> >> In real soccer game, there has not limitaion of the number of
> >> defenders in defence area, but only allow the Goal keeper can handle
> >> the ball, if the other player touch the ball with hand, he will
> >> receive a read card and the team will receive a penalty.
> >> We can learn from this real soccer rule. All the robot can enter
> >> it's own defence area, but only the goal keeper can touch the ball, if
> >> the other robot touch the ball, the team will receive a read card and
> >> a penalty.
> >>
> >> Best regards.
> >>
> >> Yonghai Wu
> >> _______________________________________________
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