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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>How referee determine that which robot is Goal Keeper??<br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div>> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 20:25:32 +0800<br>> Subject: Re: [robocup-small] the rule of "Two defender in defence area"<br>> From: liunian@zju.edu.cn<br>> To: stylus_l@hotmail.com<br>> CC: saith_rodriguez@hotmail.com; robocup-small@cc.gatech.edu<br>> <br>> 2012/11/23, Thanakorn Panyapiang <stylus_l@hotmail.com>:<br>> > It's clearly that this rule is necessary to our league because It's prevent<br>> > the negative game play, For example, put all robotin front of the goal.<br>> ><br>> My suggestions can prevent this from happening. If one team put all<br>> robots in front of the<br>> goal, the opponent has very large probability to shoot on the robot in<br>> defence area. It will be a read card and a penalty.<br>> <br>> > In my opinion the problems of this rule is cause by There is no standard for<br>> > the referee decision.<br>> > If we add the image visualization for some situation that difficult for<br>> > referee into the rule bookor make the video guideline and distribute to<br>> > teams,It should be reduce conflict in the real match.<br>> > Regards,O, Skuba<br>> > From: saith_rodriguez@hotmail.com<br>> > To: robocup-small@cc.gatech.edu<br>> > Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:34:47 -0500<br>> > Subject: Re: [robocup-small] the rule of "Two defender in defence area"<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Hi everyone,<br>> ><br>> > It is clear that the rule should not be removed, one of the problems that<br>> > our team had in 2011 and 2012 is related to some referees that have<br>> > different interpretations about rules or they just ignore them and we do not<br>> > blame them, we know it's very hard to know all rules and there are some<br>> > rules that can have multiple interpretations.<br>> ><br>> > Nevertheless, I do not think you can compare a FIFA referee with one of our<br>> > league, because they do this every day, are very experienced.<br>> ><br>> > Our concern is that as all teams have worked hard to get economic resources<br>> > and is very frustrating that everything can be truncated by poor refereeing<br>> > decisions. We realize that there will always be but not as frecuently.<br>> ><br>> > It would be great create a guide that should be released months before the<br>> > competitions.<br>> ><br>> > Regards<br>> ><br>> > Saith Rodriguez<br>> > STOx's Team Leader<br>> ><br>> > From: jgurzoni@yahoo.com.br<br>> > To: robocup-small@cc.gatech.edu<br>> > Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:33:48 -0200<br>> > Subject: Re: [robocup-small] the rule of "Two defender in defence area"<br>> ><br>> > Hello everybodyI see the point that this rule alone is a source of disputes<br>> > and a ‘fix’ should be shought, however, I have similar concerns to those<br>> > expressed by Andrea, particularly the difficulties for referees to see the<br>> > event in a split second. Let’s remind also that this rule was created to<br>> > avoid teams simply putting 3 robots in front of the goal, a similar reason<br>> > why the defense area was increased. If we remove it, simply, we may have the<br>> > problem it is currently preventing. I also think that we need to be aware<br>> > that adding ‘precision’ to the rules, like defining a specific percentage of<br>> > the robot in the area, tend not to work because humans can’t detect that<br>> > with naked eye, neither is simple to create measurement systems to this end.<br>> > Teams and referees should focus on the spirit of the rules, not on their<br>> > millimeter precision. The referee’s power to judge an event is important and<br>> > necessary, so what we could do (regardless if this rule actually gets<br>> > modified) is to do what real soccer and virtually every sport does for<br>> > referees: The organizing bodies create guidelines and recommendation to help<br>> > referees to interpret the situations. For example, Fifa issues refereeing<br>> > guidelines giving examples and suggestions about what level of body contact<br>> > is to be allowed, to what level player complaints must be accepted before a<br>> > yellow card, unsporting behavior, and so on. Amanda, Bahador and Chris<br>> > started a guide like that, if I recall correctly. CheersAngelo From:<br>> > robocup-small-bounces@cc.gatech.edu<br>> > [mailto:robocup-small-bounces@cc.gatech.edu] On Behalf Of Andrea Palmer<br>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 5:09 PM<br>> > To: robocup-small@cc.gatech.edu<br>> > Subject: Re: [robocup-small] the rule of "Two defender in defence area" Hi<br>> > all, I agree with Yonghai's statement that this rule caused difficultly in<br>> > Mexico. However, I think so far the suggestions might make it more difficult<br>> > for the referee to monitor. If a second defender would be allowed in the<br>> > area and if it would only be penalized if touched by the ball, then the<br>> > referee must watch both the ball (moving at 8 m/s) and the defending robot's<br>> > proximity to the defense area, as well as everything else he or she must be<br>> > watching on the field. Although reducing referee subjectivity will help<br>> > with more concrete rules of the game and procedures over disputes, making<br>> > the rules too specific by adding the percentage of the robot that is allowed<br>> > in the box adds more complications during the game. How easy will it be for<br>> > a referee tell the difference between 50% and 30% of the robot over the<br>> > line? I think the referees need a better explanation of this rule and when<br>> > to enforce it. Does it count if an attacking robot pushes the defending<br>> > robot in the area? Does it count if the robot is passing through the box,<br>> > but is not staying in the box (yes, if the ball touches that robot)? I can<br>> > anticipate more arguments during competition around this issue if, for<br>> > example, the second defender and the goalie are close to each other, inside<br>> > the defense area, and the ball touches one of them. How is a referee<br>> > supposed to tell which robot the ball touches? Finally, if a second<br>> > defender would be allowed in the area, what would happen if a third crossed<br>> > the defense line too? Then, not only would the referee have to closely watch<br>> > the third robot to see if it is, in fact, in the defense area, but also it<br>> > might require the initial rule that caused this discussion in the first<br>> > place. Please also keep in mind that there are currently only two referees<br>> > per game that walk along the sides of the field. During a game, there are<br>> > usually many team members with many sets of eyes along the ends of the field<br>> > who might have a better view of the defense area, and it is easier for them<br>> > to catch what the referees missed. Thanks, Andrea PalmerUBC Thunderbots On<br>> > Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Carlos Saith Rodriguez<br>> > <saith_rodriguez@hotmail.com> wrote:Hello friends<br>> ><br>> > I agree with Yonghai, this rule has created many inconveniences and clashes<br>> > between the teams and that's not good for our community.<br>> ><br>> > The proposal is good, but it needs to be very specific. for example, in any<br>> > situation in which the defender touches the ball inside the defense area was<br>> > penalized.<br>> ><br>> > More over it is necessary to define exactly when a robot is in the defense<br>> > area: when the robot touches the line delimiting the area or when 50% of the<br>> > robot is inside the area.<br>> ><br>> > We must find a solution to decrease the subjective interpretation of the<br>> > referee.<br>> ><br>> > Regards<br>> ><br>> > Saith Rodriguez<br>> > STOx's Team Leader<br>> ><br>> ><br>> >> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 22:44:15 +0800<br>> >> From: liunian@zju.edu.cn<br>> >> To: robocup-small@cc.gatech.edu<br>> >> Subject: [robocup-small] the rule of "Two defender in defence area"<br>> >><br>> >> Hi everybody,<br>> >><br>> >> Maybe everybody in Mexico has a very deep impression on the law<br>> >> of "Two defender in defence area". There were 3 penalties in the<br>> >> Quarterfinals Skuba vs Immortals due to this law.<br>> >> Law 12 of rule 2012 give the detial definition: is the second<br>> >> defending robot to simultaneously occupy the team's defence area in<br>> >> such a way tosubstantially affect game play. But the rule did not<br>> >> give a clear definition of "substantially affect game play", is all up<br>> >> to the referee. So the problem is comming, i remembered that maybe<br>> >> more than 50% argument during the game are related to this law.<br>> >> In real soccer game, there has not limitaion of the number of<br>> >> defenders in defence area, but only allow the Goal keeper can handle<br>> >> the ball, if the other player touch the ball with hand, he will<br>> >> receive a read card and the team will receive a penalty.<br>> >> We can learn from this real soccer rule. All the robot can enter<br>> >> it's own defence area, but only the goal keeper can touch the ball, if<br>> >> the other robot touch the ball, the team will receive a read card and<br>> >> a penalty.<br>> >><br>> >> Best regards.<br>> >><br>> >> Yonghai Wu<br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> robocup-small mailing list<br>> >> robocup-small@cc.gatech.edu<br>> >> https://mailman.cc.gatech.edu/mailman/listinfo/robocup-small<br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > robocup-small mailing list<br>> > robocup-small@cc.gatech.edu<br>> > https://mailman.cc.gatech.edu/mailman/listinfo/robocup-small<br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > robocup-small mailing list<br>> > robocup-small@cc.gatech.edu<br>> > https://mailman.cc.gatech.edu/mailman/listinfo/robocup-small <br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > robocup-small mailing list<br>> > robocup-small@cc.gatech.edu<br>> > https://mailman.cc.gatech.edu/mailman/listinfo/robocup-small<br></div> </div></body>
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