[robocup-humanoid] Final list of the qualified teams
=?gb2312?B?usLttQ==?=
haom05 at mails.tsinghua.edu.cn
Wed Feb 14 12:12:18 EST 2007
Dear all:
Could the program committee release the final list of the qualified
teams, thanks :)
Sambuke
Tsinghua University
2007-2-15
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Ö÷Ìâ: robocup-humanoid Digest, Vol 5, Issue 5
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: ?: One question about the position ofImagesensor.
(Oskar von Stryk)
2. Re: ?: One question about the position ofImagesensor.
(Jacky Baltes)
3. The list of teams of pre-registration (=?gb2312?B?usLttQ==?=)
4. Re: ?: One question about the position ofImagesensor.
(Thomas R?fer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 12:20:21 +0100 (CET)
From: Oskar von Stryk <stryk at sim.tu-darmstadt.de>
Subject: Re: [robocup-humanoid] ?: One question about the position
ofImagesensor.
To: Chew Chee Meng <mpeccm at nus.edu.sg>
Cc: Humanoid League Mailing List <robocup-humanoid at cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID:
<Pine.LNX.4.64.0702031203400.27604 at mail.sim.informatik.tu-darmstadt.
de>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Chew Chee,
On Sat, 3 Feb 2007, Chew Chee Meng wrote:
> Dear Oskar
>
> Our main point is that if we want to put it down explicitly in the rule,
> it should be enforced. Otherwise, each team will start to breach the
> rule and expect the organiser to waive it. Also, other teams may use
> the same case to justify their breach of rules, e.g. claiming that XX
> team also did it last year. And we think it is unfair to teams who
I think if the rule in last year had allowed it (not matter what it is)
and the corersponding rule had not changed it is obviously allowed this
year also.
Perhaps we are not talking exactly about the same.
My concrete point is:
We are using (almost) the same robot design in 2007 which we used in 2006
and which was allowed in 2006 (with a camera in the chest and a camera
in the head).
The corresponding wording in the rule had also not changed.
To me it seems that you want to ban the use of our chest camera now.
In principle we can put our chest camera as well in the head
but this needs some time for hardware modification.
Such a request at this time would be higly unfair
to any team which has already prepared their robots and software for
the qualification under the above mentioned conditions.
As I remember your robot had been using omnivision in 2006 which is much
less human like than a directed camera in the chest as our robot never can
see a ball in the back of it and must plan to search for the ball
by coordinating vision and locomotion. This needs time
and complex algorithms to do it efficiently. Therefore, more human
like directed vision is a significant disadvantage to super human
omnivision.
Thank you very much for your understanding.
With best regards,
Oskar
--
Prof. Dr. Oskar von Stryk E-Mail: stryk(at)sim.tu-darmstadt.de
Simulation and Systems Optimization Phone: ++49 (0) 6151-16-2513
Technische Universitaet Darmstadt Fax: ++49 (0) 6151-16-6648
Hochschulstr. 10 http://www.sim.tu-darmstadt.de
D-64289 Darmstadt, Germany
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 09:03:59 -0600
From: "Jacky Baltes" <jacky at cs.umanitoba.ca>
Subject: Re: [robocup-humanoid] ?: One question about the position
ofImagesensor.
To: "Oskar von Stryk" <stryk at sim.tu-darmstadt.de>
Cc: Humanoid League Mailing List <robocup-humanoid at cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID:
<d28e3f9a0702030703l7e3ea5d6hb89f9e50e63e941 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
I understand the concerns of Chew Chee and others.
However, when interpreting the rules you must follow the letter of the law
rather than the spirit as I am most painfully aware after last year's final
match.
Given the fact that the rule states "should" and the interpretation of
should as "is highly encouraged but NOT mandatory" is consistent with other
uses of "should" in the rules, I think the robot design that Team Osaka
showed in the image is legal for 2007.
CU,
Jacky
On 2/3/07, Oskar von Stryk <stryk at sim.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
>
> Dear Chew Chee,
>
> On Sat, 3 Feb 2007, Chew Chee Meng wrote:
>
> > Dear Oskar
> >
> > Our main point is that if we want to put it down explicitly in the rule,
> > it should be enforced. Otherwise, each team will start to breach the
> > rule and expect the organiser to waive it. Also, other teams may use
> > the same case to justify their breach of rules, e.g. claiming that XX
> > team also did it last year. And we think it is unfair to teams who
>
> I think if the rule in last year had allowed it (not matter what it is)
> and the corersponding rule had not changed it is obviously allowed this
> year also.
>
> Perhaps we are not talking exactly about the same.
> My concrete point is:
> We are using (almost) the same robot design in 2007 which we used in 2006
> and which was allowed in 2006 (with a camera in the chest and a camera
> in the head).
> The corresponding wording in the rule had also not changed.
>
> To me it seems that you want to ban the use of our chest camera now.
> In principle we can put our chest camera as well in the head
> but this needs some time for hardware modification.
> Such a request at this time would be higly unfair
> to any team which has already prepared their robots and software for
> the qualification under the above mentioned conditions.
>
> As I remember your robot had been using omnivision in 2006 which is much
> less human like than a directed camera in the chest as our robot never can
> see a ball in the back of it and must plan to search for the ball
> by coordinating vision and locomotion. This needs time
> and complex algorithms to do it efficiently. Therefore, more human
> like directed vision is a significant disadvantage to super human
> omnivision.
>
> Thank you very much for your understanding.
> With best regards,
> Oskar
>
> --
> Prof. Dr. Oskar von Stryk E-Mail: stryk(at)sim.tu-darmstadt.de
> Simulation and Systems Optimization Phone: ++49 (0) 6151-16-2513
> Technische Universitaet Darmstadt Fax: ++49 (0) 6151-16-6648
> Hochschulstr. 10 http://www.sim.tu-darmstadt.de
> D-64289 Darmstadt, Germany
> _______________________________________________
> robocup-humanoid mailing list
> robocup-humanoid at mailman.cc.gatech.edu
> https://mailman.cc.gatech.edu/mailman/listinfo/robocup-humanoid
>
>
--
Jacky Baltes, EITC E2-402 Department of Computer Science, University of
Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2
Phone: +1 (204) 474-8838, Fax: +1 (204) 474-7609
Email: jacky (AT) cs.umanitoba.ca
http://avocet.cs.umanitoba.ca
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 10:35:27 +0800
From: =?gb2312?B?usLttQ==?= <haom05 at mails.tsinghua.edu.cn>
Subject: [robocup-humanoid] The list of teams of pre-registration
To: <robocup-humanoid at cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <JB929795896478.10739 at mail1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312"
Hi all,
I'm the coordinator of the Humanoid League of Tsinghua Hrimthurs and
it's reported that every team of pre-registration should have received an
e-mail of notification yet unfortunately it seems I have not.
Would you please to give all the teams an entire list of the teams
of pre-registration where we could re-confirm it?
Thanks a lot :)
Sambuke.M.Hao
Tsinghua University
2007-2-4
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????????: 2007??2??3?? 16:02
??????: robocup-humanoid at cc.gatech.edu
????: robocup-humanoid Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4
Send robocup-humanoid mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mailman.cc.gatech.edu/mailman/listinfo/robocup-humanoid
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of robocup-humanoid digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: ?: One question about the position of Imagesensor.
(Oskar von Stryk)
2. Re: ?: One question about the position ofImagesensor.
(Chew Chee Meng)
3. Re: ?: One question about the position of Imagesensor.
(Shibatani Naoki)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:03:22 +0100 (CET)
From: Oskar von Stryk <stryk at sim.tu-darmstadt.de>
Subject: Re: [robocup-humanoid] ?: One question about the position of
Imagesensor.
To: Chew Chee Meng <mpeccm at nus.edu.sg>, Changjiu Zhou
<zhoucj at sp.edu.sg>
Cc: Humanoid League Mailing List <robocup-humanoid at cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID:
<Pine.LNX.4.64.0702021124300.12560 at mail.sim.informatik.tu-darmstadt.
de>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Chew Chee, Dear Changjiu, Dear Teams,
1.
You are absolutely right. No rule should be based on "twisting of English".
If there is uncertainty in the formulation it must be clarified.
This should idealy happen in the time frame which had been set for rule
discussions.
2.
The rule now in question is 4.3.
The wording in the rule draft for 2007 is **exactly** the same
as in the rules used for 2006 when it was allowed
to our team to use a camera in the robot's chest as we did
in RoboCup 2006. It was also allowed to use omnivision camera
or two cameras (one looking forwad and one looking backward in the
head) as it was done by other teams in RoboCup 2006.
At this time, it is impossible that there can be any changes in
the rules for robot design or their interpretation.
All teams have worked on their robots and submitted
qualification material.
However, a discussion about future changes in robot design
(especially for 2008) should be initiated on the mailing list
before July. Then we will be better prepared for
future rule discussions and votings on the last day of RoboCup 2007
(when there is usually only too little time for that).
With best regards,
Oskar von Stryk
--
Prof. Dr. Oskar von Stryk E-Mail: stryk(at)sim.tu-darmstadt.de
Simulation and Systems Optimization Phone: ++49 (0) 6151-16-2513
Technische Universitaet Darmstadt Fax: ++49 (0) 6151-16-6648
Hochschulstr. 10 http://www.sim.tu-darmstadt.de
D-64289 Darmstadt, Germany
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 15:19:02 +0800
From: "Chew Chee Meng" <mpeccm at nus.edu.sg>
Subject: Re: [robocup-humanoid] ?: One question about the position
ofImagesensor.
To: "Oskar von Stryk" <stryk at sim.tu-darmstadt.de>, "Changjiu Zhou"
<zhoucj at sp.edu.sg>
Cc: Humanoid League Mailing List <robocup-humanoid at cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID:
<6E7DB9984051D44D9B235574354DA37E0159332F at MBX03.stf.nus.edu.sg>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Oskar
Our main point is that if we want to put it down explicitly in the rule,
it should be enforced. Otherwise, each team will start to breach the
rule and expect the organiser to waive it. Also, other teams may use
the same case to justify their breach of rules, e.g. claiming that XX
team also did it last year. And we think it is unfair to teams who
abide by the rules. Any request to change the rule should be done
before the deadline for rule change unless no team is against it.
Thks
CM
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oskar von Stryk [mailto:stryk at sim.tu-darmstadt.de]
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:03 PM
> To: Chew Chee Meng; Changjiu Zhou
> Cc: Humanoid League Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [robocup-humanoid] ?: One question about the
> position ofImagesensor.
>
>
> Dear Chew Chee, Dear Changjiu, Dear Teams,
>
> 1.
> You are absolutely right. No rule should be based on
> "twisting of English". If there is uncertainty in the
> formulation it must be clarified. This should idealy happen
> in the time frame which had been set for rule
> discussions.
>
> 2.
> The rule now in question is 4.3.
>
> The wording in the rule draft for 2007 is **exactly** the
> same as in the rules used for 2006 when it was allowed to our
> team to use a camera in the robot's chest as we did in
> RoboCup 2006. It was also allowed to use omnivision camera or
> two cameras (one looking forwad and one looking backward in the
> head) as it was done by other teams in RoboCup 2006.
>
> At this time, it is impossible that there can be any changes
> in the rules for robot design or their interpretation. All
> teams have worked on their robots and submitted qualification
> material.
>
> However, a discussion about future changes in robot design
> (especially for 2008) should be initiated on the mailing list
> before July. Then we will be better prepared for
> future rule discussions and votings on the last day of
> RoboCup 2007 (when there is usually only too little time for that).
>
> With best regards,
> Oskar von Stryk
>
> --
> Prof. Dr. Oskar von Stryk E-Mail:
> stryk(at)sim.tu-darmstadt.de
> Simulation and Systems Optimization Phone: ++49 (0) 6151-16-2513
> Technische Universitaet Darmstadt Fax: ++49 (0) 6151-16-6648
> Hochschulstr. 10 http://www.sim.tu-darmstadt.de
> D-64289 Darmstadt, Germany
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 17:01:45 +0900
From: "Shibatani Naoki" <shibatani at vstone.co.jp>
Subject: Re: [robocup-humanoid] ?: One question about the position of
Imagesensor.
To: "Humanoid League Mailing List" <robocup-humanoid at cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <002501c74769$8d15c1e0$1e01a8c0 at Naoki>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear all,
I agree Mr.Oskar's opinion.
> 2.
> The rule now in question is 4.3.
>
> The wording in the rule draft for 2007 is **exactly** the same
> as in the rules used for 2006 when it was allowed
> to our team to use a camera in the robot's chest as we did
> in RoboCup 2006. It was also allowed to use omnivision camera
> or two cameras (one looking forwad and one looking backward in the
> head) as it was done by other teams in RoboCup 2006.
>
> At this time, it is impossible that there can be any changes in
> the rules for robot design or their interpretation.
> All teams have worked on their robots and submitted
> qualification material.
It is impossible to change the rule (interpretation) for robot design from
now.
We will have a discussion about the robot design (for future) on the day of
Robocup 2007.
Our idea about putting the camera in the chest is just,
We don't want to develop the long head ugly robot like Alien.
We have never created the robot that someone deems ugly.
So We don't want again this year.
I attach the image file.
As you see, we have no other merit,
Insted of putting the camera in the long flattened head,
Putting in the chest part makes the robot good-looking..
Thank you very much.
Sincerely yours,
Naoki Shibatani (TeamOSAKA)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oskar von Stryk" <stryk at sim.tu-darmstadt.de>
To: "Chew Chee Meng" <mpeccm at nus.edu.sg>; "Changjiu Zhou" <zhoucj at sp.edu.sg>
Cc: "Humanoid League Mailing List" <robocup-humanoid at cc.gatech.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: [robocup-humanoid] ?: One question about the position of
Imagesensor.
> Dear Chew Chee, Dear Changjiu, Dear Teams,
>
> 1.
> You are absolutely right. No rule should be based on "twisting of
> English".
> If there is uncertainty in the formulation it must be clarified.
> This should idealy happen in the time frame which had been set for rule
> discussions.
>
> 2.
> The rule now in question is 4.3.
>
> The wording in the rule draft for 2007 is **exactly** the same
> as in the rules used for 2006 when it was allowed
> to our team to use a camera in the robot's chest as we did
> in RoboCup 2006. It was also allowed to use omnivision camera
> or two cameras (one looking forwad and one looking backward in the
> head) as it was done by other teams in RoboCup 2006.
>
> At this time, it is impossible that there can be any changes in
> the rules for robot design or their interpretation.
> All teams have worked on their robots and submitted
> qualification material.
>
> However, a discussion about future changes in robot design
> (especially for 2008) should be initiated on the mailing list
> before July. Then we will be better prepared for
> future rule discussions and votings on the last day of RoboCup 2007
> (when there is usually only too little time for that).
>
> With best regards,
> Oskar von Stryk
>
> --
> Prof. Dr. Oskar von Stryk E-Mail: stryk(at)sim.tu-darmstadt.de
> Simulation and Systems Optimization Phone: ++49 (0) 6151-16-2513
> Technische Universitaet Darmstadt Fax: ++49 (0) 6151-16-6648
> Hochschulstr. 10 http://www.sim.tu-darmstadt.de
> D-64289 Darmstadt, Germany
> _______________________________________________
> robocup-humanoid mailing list
> robocup-humanoid at mailman.cc.gatech.edu
> https://mailman.cc.gatech.edu/mailman/listinfo/robocup-humanoid
>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 09:17:23 +0100
From: Thomas R?fer <Thomas.Roefer at dfki.de>
Subject: Re: [robocup-humanoid] ?: One question about the position
ofImagesensor.
To: "'Humanoid League Mailing List'" <robocup-humanoid at cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <01c801c74834$e96729e0$bc357da0$@Roefer at dfki.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
I would suggest that the TC adds a clarifying sentence to the rules now, so
that the next TC is more aware of how the rules were interpreted in the
past. This sentence must not change the current interpretation (I did not
say "should" ;-)
I would also suggest to exclude the word "should" from next year's version
of the rules. Either we accept something or we don't. This is a competition,
and teams will stretch the rules as much as it is possible if it helps them
to win (as we have seen during the step-field challenge last year). That's
ok, I guess. Long term goals (i.e. on a longer time-scale than to the next
RoboCup) may be formulated in a preamble, but not in the actual rules.
BTW: why are cameras and microphones called "distance sensors"? I would call
time-of-flight sensors such as laser scanners or sonars "distance sensors",
because that's what the measure.
I think the term that is meant is "external sensors".
Best regards
Thomas R?fer
(B-Human)
_______________________________________________________________________
Dr. Thomas R?fer Office Address:
DFKI-Lab Bremen Universit?t Bremen
Safe and Secure Cognitive Systems Cartesium 00.055
Robert-Hooke-Str. 5 Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5
28359 Bremen, Germany 28359 Bremen, Germany
http://www.dfki.de www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~roefer
Phone: +49 (421) 218-64200
Fax: +49 (421) 218-9864200
eMail: Thomas.Roefer at dfki.de
_______________________________________________________________
Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz GmbH
Firmensitz: Trippstadter Stra?e 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
Gesch?ftsf?hrung:
Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats:
Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313
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