[robocup-small] why voting is a good thing

[Raul Rojas]

Dear Sean,

although not all teams send their votes, voting is still a good thing
because it makes clear the feelings of the community. It is also easy to
do: the TC prepares a list of points to vote, and then we just answer 
"yes" or "no". No further explanations, or comments, just yes or no.
Then you look at
the results and if there is an overwhelming majority for something, then
we just accept that, if not, the TC takes the final decision.

You can send that list of points and set a deadline of, say one week,
to send the vote. I would expect more than 50% participation of all
teams.

And if participation is low, you take the decision anyhow. So we don't
lose anything, and we all feel better. And it even makes thing easier
for
you: instead of having to interpret 100+ e-mails ("what did this guy
really say?")
you have clear answers.

Cheers

Raul

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----

Hey Everyone,

As much as a vote would be nice, we've all witnessed in the past and
even witnessed in the past discussions that few teams respond to this
list.

The TC was elected to make decisions for the better of the community. 
We've heard your numerous opinions and we're going to go over the past
100+ emails and judge all the opinions regarding the changes we
outlined.

On 15 December, the TC will release the changes for 2005 and give our
reasons for our decisions.  The official rules have to be released for
15 January.

Thank you everyone for all of your thoughts and ideas.

Sean Verret
TC Chair

On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 05:24, Raul Rojas wrote:
> There were many comments about the rules. That is good, but now we 
> have to make a good summary of the main issues put forward by the 
> teams and try to see where there is agreement, and where not. I think 
> that most points could be decided by a vote. If the vote is too close 
> (like 10 to 11, for example), the technical committee decides on that 
> issue.
> 
> Let me try to summarize some points and say something about the field 
> wall at the end:
> 
> Rule 1:
> 
> There are two proposals: to limit all pushing by the robots to 50 cm, 
> not to limit it. I am for not limiting the distance a robot can push 
> the ball (with or without dribbler), because it is an artificial 
> limitation which actually decreases the range of options for a team. 
> Passing will not
> improve: such a limitation will actually make it easier to trap a
robot 
> handling the ball. Just go against this robot with two or three robots
> and that's it, it is trapped and will not be able to pass, or do
> anything.
> 
> I propose that teams with dribbler can also push the ball beyond the 
> 50 cm limit (but with dribbler motor off), so that all teams have the 
> same range of options.
> 
> My proposal does not affect any team negatively. The proposed 50cm 
> limit would actually empoverish the game. Let the range of options 
> open, this will produce
> more strategic variability and better games.
> 
> Rule 2:
> 
> there seems to be agreement that moving the ball a little inside is 
> better. Some teams think that having a slope on the boundary makes 
> easier to let the
> ball roll back.
> 
> Rule 6:
> 
> I did not really see any convincing argument for having "official 
> colors", which become unofficial once the lightning is left variable 
> and is not standard.
> 
> Rule 7:
> 
> 6 robots per team seems to be not a very popular idea
> 
> 
> WALL:
> 
> I agree with the Cornell team, that dropping the wall sounds nice, but

> it has actually made the game deteriorate. Seven seconds of average
> uninterrupted game
> is just too low a value. If there is no other possible solution, I am
> also
> for reintroducing the wall. We cannot compare our league with mid-size
> or
> the dogs. Their robots are five to ten times slower: having no wall
does
> not
> stop the game there as often as in our case. Making the game longer is
> not the 
> fix we need. We need to keep the ball in play. If the only way to do
> this is by
> having a wall, let us have a wall.
> 
> This is such an important issue that we should have a discussion/vote 
> exclusively about it.
> 
> Raul Rojas
> FU Fighters Team
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: robocup-small-bounces at cc.gatech.edu
> [mailto:robocup-small-bounces at cc.gatech.edu] Im Auftrag von Raffaello 
> D'Andrea
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Dezember 2004 04:46
> An: robocup-small at cc.gatech.edu
> Betreff: [robocup-small] Comments
> 
> 
> Our final comments:
> 
> 1. There should be a statement by the rules committee to confirm that 
> the 20% rule is in effect at any instant of the game, including during

> a chip kick.  This will prevent last minute disputes at competition.
> 
> 2. The enlargement of the keep-out area around an inbounding robot is 
> very important. In conjunction with the 10 cm offset it should improve

> the chances of a successful throw-in.
> 
> 3. There is a major problem with the quality of play due to the ball 
> being out of bounds most of the time.  We don't think the proposed 
> changes are enough to make a significant improvement.  We think that 
> the single best thing we could do to improve quality of play is to 
> bring back the walls. The walls not being there on a real soccer pitch

> is not a good enough reason to not have them.
> 
> 
> 
> *****************************************
>   Prof. Raffaello D'Andrea
>   101 Rhodes Hall
>   Sibley School of Mech. & Aero. Engr.
>   Cornell University
>   Ithaca, NY 14853-7501
>   http://www.mae.cornell.edu/Raff
>   (607) 255-0710 (Voice)
>   (607) 255-1222 (FAX)
> *****************************************
> 
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