[robocup-legged] Rule Changes and Poll

[Çetin Meriçli]

Hi all,

I totally agree with Thomas. In 2006, due to a technical problem, we 
played most of our games with either no localization or a very unstable 
localization and we were able to proceed to the quarterfinals even 
though we were not prepared for playing without localization. So I am 
too, thinking that even the most radical beacon setup change will not 
affect the quality of the games dramatically.

Besides, in my opinion, a robust qualitative localization method would 
be sufficient, if it is carefully crafted.

By the way, do not take my words as a favor to the non-beacon setup. We 
did not discussed about our team decision yet.

Cheers,
Çetin

Thomas Röfer wrote:

>Hi,
>
>  
>
>>I am afraid that under the current limitation of the Aibo's vision
>>the variant "3) no beacons" (although very appealing) incorporates
>>the highest risk of not to achieve the goal of major innovations and
>>high quality games in 2007.
>>    
>>
>
>I think there is a certain misperception about what makes our league
>interesting in the eyes of the RoboCup trustees. It is basically the
>research that is performed and how the work done contributes to the overall
>goal of RoboCup. There is surely a certain interest in high quality games,
>but it is most certainly not the intention of the RoboCup trustees to stop
>the continuous change toward the 100x70 qm outdoor field in a soccer stadium
>the 2050 humanoid robots will have to deal with. With removing the beacons
>the quality of game play may be reduced in 2007, but I would not expect it
>to drop dramatically.
>
>We need new challenges. In fact half of the talks given at the RoboCup
>Symposium 2006 were coming from our league (congratulations!!!), but I had
>the impression that most of the things presented did not make its way to the
>actual games. For the AI magazine article on RoboCup 2006 I had to answer
>the question "What are the improvements from 2005 to 2006?" and I had no
>good answer to this question, for instance I found no answers in the TDPs of
>the two finalists.
>
>Removing the beacons may ruin self-localization. So either we have to invent
>methods to still be able to metrically self-localize without them (I think
>that is still possible), our we have to rely on a more qualitative way of
>self-localization (as human soccer player most certainly do). So this poses
>challenges to most parts of the control software: image-processing (perceive
>more/other objects), world-modeling, behavior control (play with more
>uncertainty, without metric position), attention control, and multi-robot
>collaboration (can teammates help the attacker in localization?).
>
>After 2007, we may change the robot platform to something new. Since it is
>quite sure that the central sensor will still be a directed camera, the
>research on localization without beacons is not in vain.
>
>Best regards
>
>Thomas Röfer
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Dr. Thomas Röfer                   Office Address:
>DFKI-Lab Bremen                    Universität Bremen
>Safe and Secure Cognitive Systems  Cartesium 0.055
>Robert-Hooke-Str. 5                Bibliothekstr. 1
>28359 Bremen, Germany              28359 Bremen, Germany
>http://www.dfki.de                 www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~roefer
>
>Phone: +49 (421) 218-64200
>Fax:   +49 (421) 218-9864200
>eMail: Thomas.Roefer at dfki.de
>
>
>
>
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>  
>