[robocup-humanoid] ?: One question about the position of Imagesensor.

[Chew Chee Meng]

Dear Michael

We think that the rules should not be twisted based on the usage of English.  We will be opening a can of worms if we do that.  Paragraph 4.3 encouraged the used of human like sensors as a general philosophy.  Nobody will depute this statement.  As for the four points highlighted in the paragraph, they are viewed in general to be rules for the game.  If not, why bother to highlight them?  

Rgds
Chee-Meng


> -----Original Message-----
> From: robocup-humanoid-bounces at cc.gatech.edu 
> [mailto:robocup-humanoid-bounces at cc.gatech.edu] On Behalf Of 
> N. Michael Mayer
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:55 AM
> To: Humanoid League Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [robocup-humanoid] ?: One question about the 
> position of Imagesensor.
> 
> 
> Dear everybody,
> If you compare the other formulations of rules it becomes 
> clear that the relevant parts (Paragraph 4.2) are 
> recommendations and not rules, i.e. they use the verbs 
> "should" and "may" instead of "is not allowed" as stated in 
> the Paragraph 4.1. In addition, the intention of the 
> paragraph is made obvious in the opening remarks of section 4 
> by using the formulation "is encouraged" which is by no means 
> a formulation of a hard rule. Thus, I think the meaning of 
> this paragraph is vision sensors in the tummy are allowed but 
> not recommended. ... and I think next year we should (<-sic!) 
> make the rules waterproof.
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> Chew Chee Meng wrote:
> > Dear All
> >
> > We do not recall that camera on the chest was specifically 
> brought up 
> > in the RoboCup 2006 meeting.  Only omnivision was discussed and the 
> > members agreed to allow omnivision to be used in RoboCup 2007.  We 
> > think that camera on the chest should be disallowed as it is 
> > explicitly stated in the rule.
> >
> > Rgds
> > Chee-Meng
> > Team ROPE
> >
> >   
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: robocup-humanoid-bounces at cc.gatech.edu
> >> [mailto:robocup-humanoid-bounces at cc.gatech.edu] On Behalf Of 
> >> Hiroshi Ishiguro
> >> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:43 AM
> >> To: 'Oskar von Stryk'; 'Pasan Kulvanit'
> >> Cc: 'Humanoid League Mailing List'
> >> Subject: [robocup-humanoid] ?: One question about the 
> >> position of Image sensor.
> >>
> >>
> >> I think Oskar's comment is proper.
> >> We just wanted to make sure on the rule.
> >> Of course, it is better not to use omnivision and camera on
> >> the chest in the near future. But for the next game, it 
> >> should be allowed if we follow the rule and the discussion in 
> >> the last game.
> >>
> >> -Hiroshi
> >>
> >>     
> >>> -----元のメッセージ-----
> >>> 差出人: robocup-humanoid-bounces at cc.gatech.edu
> >>> [mailto:robocup-humanoid-bounces at cc.gatech.edu] 代理人 Oskar 
> von Stryk
> >>> 送信日時: 2007年2月2日 6:02
> >>> 宛先: Pasan Kulvanit
> >>> ＣＣ: Humanoid League Mailing List
> >>> 件名: Re: [robocup-humanoid] One question about the 
> position of Image
> >>>       
> >> sensor.
> >>     
> >>> Dear Pasan, Dear Teams,
> >>>
> >>>       
> >>>> BTW, does it means "chest area"? If so then according to
> >>>>         
> >> the rule,
> >>     
> >>>> there is nothing to stop u from doing that. I think
> >>>>         
> >> DD&Hajime uses
> >>     
> >>>> this config too.
> >>>>         
> >>> This is true. The corresponding wording in the rule is exactly the
> >>> same than for last year. Last year we asked some TC 
> members months 
> >>> before the RoboCup about the meaning and the formulation allows a 
> >>> camera in the robot's chest. "Should" means a strong 
> recommendation 
> >>> but not a strict "must".
> >>>
> >>> But of course, any unclearness in the rules or robot design
> >>>       
> >> should be
> >>     
> >>> processed as has been stated by Jacky.
> >>>
> >>>       
> >>>> However, I tend to stand against the idea. This is
> >>>>         
> >> because humanoid
> >> robot
> >>     
> >>>> means...close to human, and human does not posses a camera at the
> >>>> chest. This is falling along the same line as "should we 
> ban omni 
> >>>> vision?"
> >>>>         
> >>> This is a very delicate and controversial but nevertheless
> >>>       
> >> important
> >>     
> >>> discussion.
> >>>
> >>> For example, when we attended the IEEE Humanoid Robots
> >>>       
> >> Conference in
> >>     
> >>> December 2006 for humanoid robot soccer demos, we could 
> clearly see
> >>> that not a single humanoid robot in that highly recognized 
> >>>       
> >> conference
> >>     
> >>> had been using omnivision. All had been using directed vision with
> >>> one, two or even three cameras.
> >>>
> >>>       
> >>>> To ban or not to ban is not a question right now. It is a
> >>>>         
> >> question
> >>     
> >>>> at
> >>>>         
> >> the
> >>     
> >>>> last day of RC2007 where we meet to set the rule for 2008.
> >>>>         
> >>> Yes, you are right.
> >>> But as there will be not much time on the last day of RoboCup the
> >>> current TC members plan to put an appendix to the rules with some 
> >>> guidelines where the humanoid league will/should be 
> directed in the 
> >>> next years. (If we can agree on it ...)
> >>>
> >>> With best regards,
> >>> Oskar von Stryk
> >>> www.dribblers.de _______________________________________________
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> >>>       
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