[robocup-small] New Rules

Thu Mar 28 14:29:04 EDT 2013

Hi all,

I think that trying to increase the teams' abilities to kick, track and
defend against chip shots is a worthwhile scientific pursuit. However, I do
agree with other comments here that we have to be careful to not detract
from other aspects of game play by encouraging more chip shots. For
example, it does seem like the rule change, as currently stated, would
significantly increase the expected reward of unintelligently chipping into
the opponent's defense area, in hopes for either a goal or a bounce off the
goalkeeper that would leave attackers in a very advantageous position with
respect to defenders who cannot enter the defense area.

In that sense, I also find Joydeep's suggestion of stopping game play when
the goalie touches the ball after a chip shot interesting. As slightly
alternative suggestions, maybe the ball could be considered "caught" by the
goalie in the defense area (and thus game play stops) only if it hits the
top of the goalie, or only if it hits the goalie before the first bounce.
It seems like this would encourage accurate chip shot tracking and a more
active and intelligent goalkeeper, while discouraging random chip shots
onto the goal.

Finally, have you considered the option of first making the problem of
defending against a chip shot a technical challenge, before incorporating
it into the rules of the game? It seems like this would give all teams an
opportunity to get up to date on this aspect of the game, thus providing a
more even playing field for all teams.

Juan Pablo

On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Joydeep Biswas <joydeep at cmu.edu> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Angelo, you pointed the problem out yourself: I believe that this
> otherwise rare scenario will become much more frequent as attackers keep
> chipping at the goal in the hopes of scoring a goal.
>
> If we're trying to imitate how a human goalie catches a flying ball, then
> the robot goalie should have just a fair chance of controlling how it wants
> to release the ball. Hence the suggestion of stopping the game with the
> indirect free kick.
>
> -Joydeep
>
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Angelo Gurzoni Jr <jgurzoni at yahoo.com.br
> > wrote:
>
>> Hello, everybody****
>>
>> Wouldn’t the scenario described by Joydeep result in a goal in the same
>> way, if we use the current rules, where chip goals aren’t allowed ?****
>>
>> I’m not saying that Joydeep’s line of thought isn’t appropriate, as
>> allowing chip goals may increase the occurrence of this otherwise rare
>> event, just trying to put the scenario in the context of how would it be
>> handled until now. The suggestion to stop the game when the goalie touches
>> seem interesting, indeed.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Cheers****
>>
>> Angelo****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* robocup-small-bounces at cc.gatech.edu [mailto:
>> robocup-small-bounces at cc.gatech.edu] *On Behalf Of *Joydeep Biswas
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 28, 2013 11:55 AM
>> *To:* Christopher Head
>> *Cc:* robocup-small at cc.gatech.edu
>> *Subject:* Re: [robocup-small] New Rules****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Thanks for the clarification.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I feel that allowing goals from chip kicks like in the scenario I
>> mentioned will promote unintelligent behaviour where attacking robots will
>> just keep on chipping at the goal in the hopes that scenarios like this
>> happen, and that they will be awarded goals. For the goalie, however, it's
>> reasonable to "catch" the chip kick, but entirely unreasonable to predict
>> exactly how the ball will bounce off after hitting the goalie. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Therefore, I feel if we are to allow goals from chipping, then if the
>> goalie intercepts a chip shot in the defense area, the game should stop and
>> the goalie should be awarded an indirect free kick from where it
>> intercepted the ball. This is just like in real soccer where if the goalie
>> actually catches the ball, he/she has full control of where he/she will
>> pass the ball to, next.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> What are the views of the other participants of the small size league?***
>> *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> -Joydeep****
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Christopher Head <chead at chead.ca>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256****
>>
>> Hello,
>> Yes, this would be a goal for yellow. The only case when a chip goal is
>> not a goal during normal play is if it touches the goalie then goes in
>> the goal, WITHOUT touching any other robot in between—this includes
>> another defender. We tried to strike a balance between encouraging
>> teams to use chippers where it makes sense to do so, while still giving
>> the goalie the power to defend effectively against chip goals, and the
>> rule about the goalie catching chip kicks that go directly into the
>> goal after touching the goalie was our way to (hopefully!) achieve that
>> balance.
>>
>> Chris****
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 18:26:34 -0400
>> Joydeep Biswas <joydeep at cmu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Chris,
>> >
>> > I would like to clarify the rule regarding "catching" chip kicks in
>> > the following scenario:
>> >
>> > Scenario:
>> > 1. Yellow robot 0 chip kicks the ball towards blue goal.
>> > 2. Blue goalie (blue robot 0) touches the ball, and the ball bounces
>> > off its front.
>> > 3. The ball, bouncing off the front of blue goalie, hits the back of
>> > blue defender robot 1.
>> > 4. The ball, after hitting the back of blue defender robot 1, enters
>> > the blue goal.
>> >
>> > Would this scenario result in a goal for yellow team?
>> >
>> > -Joydeep****
>>
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>>
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>> ** **
>>
>
>
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