[robocup-humanoid] RoboCup Humanoid League Rule Discussion

[Reinaldo Bianchi]

Dear Remi and fellow RoboCuppers,

Some thoughts on your thoughts... 


> Em 27 de jul de 2016, à(s) 11:05, Remi Fabre <remi.fabre at labri.fr> escreveu:
> 
> 1) Magnetometer and localization
> - Breaking the symmetry is a very hard task and we feel we're not ready for it. A solution would be to put asymmetrical markers on the field.
> - Will the white advertisements always be present around the field? They could be used as the asymmetrical markers and defined in the rules (position, size, shape).

There is a variety of ways to break the symmetry. The easier one is using information from câmera, as you proposed (using the advertisements on the field, for example). People on SPL is already doing that, as in:

Visual Room-Awareness for Humanoid Robot Self-Localization, by Markus Bader http://www.acin.tuwien.ac.at/fileadmin/acin/v4r/v4r/oagm2013_bader-web-2013-09-10.pdf


Colour Histograms as Background Description: An approach to overcoming the Uniform-Goal Problem within the SPL for the RoboCup WC 2012 also by Markusr Bader  http://info.tuwien.ac.at/mbader/publications/downloads/bader2012b.pdf


If we want to move forward to the new challenges, we should not go back and add asymetrical markers on the field.


> 
> 2) Free kicks
> While the discussion around the free kicks is interesting, very few fouls, if any, are actually sanctioned. In the current state of the competition, sanctioning all the fouls would make the games stop very often. If a change in the foul policy is to be made, it must be very clearly stated.

Are you sure that the foults would make the game stop? I mean, stop more than they already are?

In the last meeting in Leipzig we already agreed to have free kicks in 2017. Quoting the documento that Maike sent: “Vote:
1. Moving towards a simplified free kick version in the 2017 rules. (7/4/3) [Approved]
“


What we need to discuss and agree on is what will be these simplified rules. On the same document we have some options:

 Proposal 1: No robot is removed. There is a free kick button in the game controller. Once this is clicked the team committed the foul have 15 seconds to move at least 50cm away from the ball. The other team is allowed to move as well to get a better position for the free kick. All robots who did not move away for at least 50cm will be removed after the 15 seconds.


Proposal 2: As proposal 1, but the robot which committed the foul is removed.

Option 1: Incapable players will be removed directly anyway, in both proposals. Option 2: Another possible implementation would not remove the players which didn't move away in time but position them manually 50cm away.


I think that, as a start for 2017, we could use option 2, where robots that do not move away are manually placed at 50 cm from the free kick position.

I personally think that this would be better that what we have now, with robots going in and out of the playing field all the time. (it would be much easier for the person that is at the game controller).


> 
> 3) Mediums of Transmission
> Once an Ethernet cable is connected to a robot, there is no practical way to control what type of information is communicated. The main problem is that a serviced robot can communicate with the playing robots as he goes back in play, thus making it possible to broadcast anything. Here is a proposition :
> a) The is no restriction on the type of information a serviced robot can receive from its team (position of the robots, position of the ball, strategy, etc)
> b) A serviced robot is not allowed to communicate with the other robots in any way
> c) Once the team has finished communicating with the robot, the robot must remain in service status for a fixed period (1 minute ?). During this period it is forbidden to communicate with the robot in any way and the robot can't communicate either.
> This way when the robot is able to communicate with the other robots, dynamic information such as ball/players positions would be stale. And if the information is not stale because the ball didn't move for a whole minute, then why not let this be a way to unblock the situation?
> How to make sure a robot is not communicating illegally is another subject, but recording the wifi traffic in case a complaint arises is a cheap first step.
> 

One question: has this type of communication helped any team in 2016?

As for your proposal, letter “a” seems to be against the Autonomous habilities we want our robots to have, as for “b” and “c” is agains the multiagent nature of the teams of robots.

As for recording the wi-fi traffic, it would only show us that robots have communicated. But if a team is communicating using any encryption, there is no what to know what is the message they are passing...


I my view, as we all agreed that passing this kind of information is not allowed, we should trust that the teams will not do that in 2017. 




> 4) Groups
> 
The proposal looks good.

> 
> 5) Stability of the rules
> Ideally, the final version of the rules should have detailed specifications of the field and the ball :
> - Grass reference
> - Goal's construction
> - White lines paint reference
> - Immediate known surroundings of the field.


Anyone that has already been involved in the organizing of the competitions knows that even the organizers do not have control over everything. So, I don’t think that it is possible to know in advance this information. Grass from diferente brands are diferente, and it difficult to have one brand decided a priory by the TC. The white lines always are very problematic. The surroundings of the field is even a worst problem.

I agree that this adds to the difficulties of building a team, but, in my view, these are some aspects that we are not under our control.


As for the ball, that is a diferente situation. I think we could agree on which ball will be used a few months before the competition. This years Japan league oficial ball looks good :-) http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/12/adidas-errejota-2016-j-league-ball.html



I still was not able to really read the document that Esfandiar sent, but I will try to read it before the end on this week. 

Best regards,
Reinaldo - RoboFEI.