[robocup-humanoid] Fw: Fwd: Rule Discussion

Daniel Seifert dseifert at fumanoids.de
Thu Nov 24 14:56:04 EST 2011


Hi

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 20:00, soroush sadeghnezhad
<soroushsadeghnejad at yahoo.com> wrote:
> First of all, I recommend to extend the deadline of the rule
> discussion to let more teams to participate in the new rule
> discussion because there are many new changes in the
> 2012 rule of competition.

The TC welcomes feedback on and discussion of the rules. We encourage
teams to participate in the discussion, however participation so far
was quite low. We scheduled 15 days for the discussion and if there
had been some extensive argument going on that showed that more time
was needed, this would have been no problem.

Considering the changes to the rules, it is very important that a
draft is released this year and the rules being finalized well in
advance of RoboCup 2012. Only this way all teams have sufficient time
to properly prepare. However this requires that we keep a tight
schedule.

That said, we are still in the process of defining the changes, so
please consider the deadline extended to the end of the month. Again,
we ask that teams voice their opinions (pro, contra, new suggestions)
to the proposed changes as only this way the rules will be able to
address all teams' concerns fairly. As the rules will not be finalized
this year, of course later comments are possible as well but at some
point in time may likely not influence the rules anymore.

> It is a good issue not to let any robot to harm the other
> robots or human by having any part sticking out from the
> body of robots.
>
> In my opinion it is not safe to let the referees
> touching and moving the robots. Since in this league, the
> robots are not in a standard shape and configuration  (like
> NAO) so it is difficult for referee or other people to guess
> about their different behavior in an exact time, so it may be
> harmful for referees to touch any robots during the match.
> Also some teams may not like others to touch their robots.
>
> On the other hand we can introduce a standard handler
> shape for all robots to have a standard shape, so in that
> case it seems to be a little safe for referees to touch any
> robots during the match and it helps to have a low traffic
> field by not letting team's robot handler go inside the filed
> and let spectators to watch the match easier!!!

Exactly.

Speaking for myself, I believe that having the referees handle the
robots would be doable and indeed preferable.

The reason for this suggestion is that it limits the number of humans
on the field (namely the two robot handlers) and makes the game more
efficient as communication is easier and faster between the referee
and the assistant referees. It would also encourage safer robots in
the first place.

It should be possible to require that if a robot is lifted vertically
(e.g. by a handle at his neck) it must be safe for the handler to do
so. Something like this is easy to implement, e.g. by use of an IMU.
And in any case, there are not many robots that would hurt a robot
handler's arm above their head even right now as this is usually a
dead  zone. This approach would also limit the contact of the referee
with the robot - it would be limited to the handle and no touching of
actual hardware (or damaging of them) would take place. Apart from the
handle and the limitations set forth by the rules, teams would not be
hindered to pursue their own robot designs.

That said, nothing has been decided yet. I believe it is unlikely that
this will be mandatory for next year, but hopefully will be part of
the outlook so teams have sufficient time to prepare.

> To have more real human behavior, It is better to encourage all teams to have human-like motion. e.g. for walking motion it seems necessary.

Yes. Though I can't recall a team that walked with a distinctly
non-human-like motion this year?

> For Open Issue, I have a suggestion. I think we can introduce a match with mixed teams, like the previous year in Istanbul, let two teams to have a joint team so there will be more player in the field for the same time. I think we can start introducing 4vs4 games for this year with this method and if it will be OK we can make it as a new rule for 2013. In that case, we can introduce the best collaborating teams, but it needs to have a match in a bigger size filed like Teen size or Adult size filed.

The 5vs5 game last year was an interesting experience, however it
would require better (read: any) cooperation - i.e. the robots must be
able to communicate with each other or at the very least have some
mechanism to 'know' about one another and assign roles. This is
something I feel should be aimed for, and I would be interested to
join such a game again in Mexico.

Daniel

--
dseifert at fumanoids.de
Phone +49 30 838 75 125

Freie Universität Berlin
Institut für Informatik
AG Intelligente Systeme und Robotik
Arnimallee 7
14195 Berlin
Germany


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